Frederick Breedon - Getty Images
Nashville Predators defenseman Ryan Suter set fans buzzing on Twitter this afternoon with a statement echoed by multiple members of the media assembled in Ottawa for the All-Star Game:
Ryan Suter just said during his media availability that he doesn't think he'll sign before trade deadline... Feel it would be distraction.. But I would also say Suter sounded like a guy who loves it in Nashville and will give the Preds very much a fair chance before July 1
--- ESPN's Pierre LeBrun
Simply put, the notion that signing a contract extension now would be a "distraction" is absurd. Instead, we've got a pretty large distraction which won't go away any time soon.
Instead, we have Suter breaking this bit of news on a day with pretty much nothing else going on, in front of hockey reporters from all across North America. He could have said this last week, or last month to one of the local reporters. Instead, he does it in a setting which screams "showcase" (and let's be clear, I don't blame Suter one bit - he's worked his way into a dream scenario).
For general manager David Poile, the clock is ticking. Does he hold on to Suter and continue to hope that he'll agree to an extension before July 1, risking the loss of an All-Star defenseman for nothing in return? That's the direction his public statements have leaned toward most recently, presumably fueled by the team's 18-5-0 record of late.
The alternative would be to open the bidding and trade Suter to a contender over the next several weeks, extracting as much as possible in prospects and picks to keep the team on a long-term upward path. Recall Poile's words to Josh Cooper from January 9:
"Our first and foremost goal is to sign Ryan. We've been trying to do that all season long. I've not accomplished that to this point, but we're hoping to continue discussions and get that done at some point. We'll be prepared, if we feel that we weren't going to be able to sign Ryan, and if we thought we were in a position that we had to or should trade him. I'm certainly hoping that doesn't happen, I don't want that to happen, but I want to be prepared for that."
Based on what Suter is saying today, does that make you more or less confident that he'll re-sign with Nashville? Recall that Suter's statement comes just 2 days after all this discussion of the Preds "stepping up their efforts" to get Ryan signed. If Poile waits until after the season to come to a "no" decision on this point, anything he'll get back in trade will be paltry compared to what he could land in the next few weeks.
It's a tremendous gamble, and not one any of us would want to be in the position to make. Ponder that while surfing through your afternoon notes...
UPDATE: For more on the Ryan Suter situation, listen in as Craig Custance joined The Sports Revolution on 102.5 The Game this afternoon:
Craig Custance on 1025 2012-01-27 (mp3)
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0 recs | 190 comments
if we traded him
We would not get a great return and would screw our d core for the playoff push. Id rather keep him till the end and then just let him deside if he wants to stay or go. This is nothing new he has been saying that since the beginning of the season this is a non issue right now
Shadow23 - January 27, 2012 via iPhone app
I would beg to differ, GM’s are salivating everywhere again. It is the top story on TSN, and it had just begun to quiet down, now it is going to continue to be a distraction for the rest of the season, or until he signs. I agree with keeping him, but the media circus around this is crazy.
Predmonton - January 27, 2012
Maybe he is playing with them and trying to see who will throw what his way but in the end will stay here. Or he is trying to determine fsir market value
Shadow23 - January 27, 2012 via iPhone app
As much as they paid Peks, I am sure that they are giving him a fair market value offer.
Predmonton - January 27, 2012
Maybe the rub is that he wants more than the fair market value? Why else would he not be signing? I don’t go along with the idea that he is trying to force Poile to add a monstrous scorer to the team.
amyinsparta - January 27, 2012
Because
He’ll get higher than the fair market value on July 1st. I can’t think of a good reason to keep him. He’s great, sure, but this year isn’t probably going to be our year anyways, so get some picks and prospects and prepare for next.
Poiju - January 27, 2012
If you let Suter go, Weber will be on his coat tails No reason to keep him? Who replaces that two some on defense. With a solid top 6 forward they can go deep in the playoffs and keep them both.
Catwoman - January 27, 2012
Maybe you misunderstand me...
…my opinion is that we have already let them go. That the mistake was made a year and two years ago. I agree, you lose one the other is not far behind.
I’m thinking we should shop and shop hard. At least we provide ourselves with something to build on/trade on. Not to mention, we have Weber for another year. Very few people believe Weber is as good without Suter, maybe that year apart will change his position drastically.
Poiju - January 27, 2012
Please Correct me if I am wrong
but Weber is RFA and can’t go to arbitration (this is the part I am unsure of).
If the above statement is correct, then all GMDP has to do is offer a five year deal at the contract amount he deems fair. Before you go crazy on me hear me out. GMDP does not have to offer Shea a one year deal nor a two. Realistically what GM in the league is going to sign Weber to an offer sheet of one year in his final year before UFA. Shea signs the multi-year offer sheet and then Poile matches it. Weber has zero leg to stand on here. Poile plays hard ball and we keep Weber long term no matter what.
wrandsw - January 27, 2012
Weber can elect arbitration if he wishes
Dirk Hoag - January 27, 2012
Weber currently has a leg to stand on.
My point is that without Suter, we don’t really know how good he is. He’ll still be outstanding, but 7.5/yr outstanding? Maybe not. Might end up being able to get a leg up on him.
Point is, shop Suter. Shop Suter. Shop Suter. Doesn’t mean trade him for sure, just put him out there hard and see if maybe he isn’t willing to consider staying when it’s in front of his face.
Poiju - January 27, 2012
so
You want to ruin our season by trading suter knowing we wont really get equal return for him. By getting rid of him at the deadline you are essentually giving up. You say fet prospects and picks? Why go into rebuild mold now and put us back to batteling with columbus? Trading him away would all but garentee that weber would go but more then that your idea dooms this franchise to the mold of never being a destination where people want to go. If we followed your plan you have set the team back 10 years to where just getting to the playoffs is to be celebrated. Where as now we want to go deeper then 2 rounds and could realistically this year make a run deep into the playoffs. Im sorry i dont see your logic here going on an assumption the suter wont sign. If that is the case why not keep him and see how deep we can go who knows we may do the impossible and then he may sign but why throw away a great season just to take some guys who may never make it out of the minors with picks and prospects
Shadow23 - January 28, 2012 via iPhone app
Agreed.
Besides, if Suter does leave for greener pastures (pun intended), we’ve got around 7M that was planned for Suter to spend on the UFA market or for trades. We’re not left completely empty handed here if things don’t work out as planned. We should make our best effort to go deep into the playoffs this season while the grass is green here.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
It just dosnt make sense to trade him. If you follow that line of thought through you end up with every player seeing us as a place to start a career but not win it all with. That leafs to us having to over pay to get anyone of a decent skill set in here and that could lead to fans not wanting to see mediocrity ( see tennessee titans this year attendance way way down) which would in turn lead to the team being in a position it was in before in being sold and moved. Granted its worse case but that becomes a very real posibility
Shadow23 - January 28, 2012 via iPhone app
not good, but
If you can make a trade for a top forward then you ride this thing out and let the chips fall where they may in July. Make the cup run and see what we can get done.
bvkv09 - January 27, 2012
Eh...
I think this is being blown this WAY out of proportion. It’s a vague comment on a tough situation that Suter gets questioned about daily and will only continue to get asked about ad nauseam as we crawl closer to the deadline. After all, this follows the unverified rumor (has anyone seen the e-mail in question?) that Poile doesn’t intend to trade him before the deadline. So have an unverified rumor and a vague statement: Welcome to the 2012 NHL trade deadline.
Besides, the rest of his statement didn’t sound too different than anything else he’s already said. Suter wants to stay in Nashville but wants a sign that the club is committed to winning the Cup. Suter and Weber want to do a shot for shot remake of "Point Break" on the banks of the Cumberland but want Poile’s blessing first. Etc.
I’m fine with keeping him and then trying to sign him before July. If he’s not being traded and not going to sign then they should just announce that and tell everyone to back off the story. Otherwise we’ve got another month of these rumors and statements ahead of us.
mrcaptain - January 27, 2012
I just wish both sides would just STFU..
and PLAY HOCKEY!
We’ll have plenty of time after the Preds win the Cup to speculate if/or when he signs and then all summer to gripe about getting nothing for him before July 1st if he doesn’t sign.
TitanPredBearFan - January 27, 2012
Agreed.
Having this freakfest every week is getting old.
Let’s just assume we know nothing until offseason and go for it this year.
Josiah2729 - January 27, 2012
Can we? Please? Thank you.
CAustin - January 27, 2012
No, our western conf. team must match the same level of strife as our eastern conf. teams. :p
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
[Clare’s head explodes.]
CAustin - January 28, 2012
Thank you.
davisca - January 28, 2012
Here's an idea....
Pay the guy and be done with it. Why would anyone think that Poile has offered Suter “fair market value”? Like they offered Weber that elusive “fair market value” before the season right? Here is an excerpt from….. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/573206-washington-capitals-ten-reasons-the-capitals-have-never-won-a-stanley-cup#/articles/573206-washington-capitals-ten-reasons-the-capitals-have-never-won-a-stanley-cup … :
“Poile would not budge in trying to shift his philosophy from defense to offense, and the lack of offensive production killed Washington during their playoff runs of that era.
Poile’s most controversial deal was not matching the offer sheet to perhaps the best defensive defenseman in the game at the time. The St. Louis Blues offered Scott Stevens a one million dollar contract and Poile failed to match, perhaps over the limousine incident."
The entire frustration with Poile not adding a scorer or not getting deals done with Weber or Suter is nothing but history repeating itself again….
Kent Maddox - January 27, 2012
Interesting perspective.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
and how many cups have the Caps won since Poile left?
Shawn Kehoe - January 28, 2012
that’s a good point … to be fair, after he left, they bottomed out – something that never really happened under Poile because he kept them competitive … too good to miss the playoffs, too weak to sniff the Cup (sound familiar?). They loaded up on strong first rounders, and you know the rest. No they haven’t won a Cup, but look at that building – the sellouts streak, the red, the natl tv games. They’re in a better place.
I think the Scott Stevens story certainly impacts today. He truly wishes he had that one back, I think. Instead of seeing this as a pattern, I’m going with he’s not going to let it happen again. He and Suter’s agent, Neil Sheehy, go way back. Sheehy played for him in DC for a few years. I’m thinking there will be no trade, and they’ll get a deal done, but not before the deadline. I know that might be wishful thinking.
On Suter’s comments, I’m with the don’t overreact crowd. He said the exact same thing in a local radio interview about a month ago. Only difference is that more people were listening. He was responding to a question. There may be less calculation there than one might think. … But yeah, the comment about not wanting this to be a distraction was kind of funny. Though I will say that if it is a distraction, it doesn’t seem to be impacting their performance on the ice.
el pucko - January 28, 2012 via Android app
it seems to be
More distracting to us then him honestly. Every time he makes one comment about it we get 3-4 threads and comment sections full of 150+ comments
Shadow23 - January 28, 2012 via iPhone app
Reading between the lines..........
While none of us know what Suter’s thought process is in all of this, what I’m hearing him say is “I’ll sign when you show me your serious about being a Cup contender”. Let’s face it, it’s Jan. 27 and the only roster moves Poile has made this season are picking up a goon (a good goon, but still a goon) and the Yipster. That, with all due respect to the difficulty of making trades of significance during the season, isn’t a serious attempt to persuade an elite pending UFA to stick around. This has to change in the next few weeks.
Now one can say that “wait, we’re one of the best teams in the league, isn’t that enough?”. Well, it’s a fair point to bring up, but I would suggest that a teams standing at the 48 game mark of the season only paints part of the picture. It was only a few weeks ago that teams like the Stars and Wild were right there with us in the standings and I don’t think anyone would have argued that they were Cup ready teams.
As far as trading Suter, I would be against it unless someone throws an offer at us that’s to good to pass up. Keep in mind that if Poile trades Suter for prospects and picks, which is the likely return we would get for reasons discussed previously, Weber is highly unlikely to even consider staying here past next season. The best scenario available is to bring in the best forward available and A: make a serious attempt to win the Cup and B: make the most serious attempt we can to convince Suter (and Weber) that this is a place they can compete for the Cup every year, just like they could in Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, Chicago and a few other places as well.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
rec'd
bvkv09 - January 27, 2012
Why thank you!
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Rec'd again....
You hit the nail on the head.
Kent Maddox - January 27, 2012
green
Only Fan In J.C. ? - January 27, 2012
I WILL DEFEND POILE A LITTLE
he doesnt need to make moves based on " an attempt to persuade a pending UFA". to me he missed the boat during the offseason, not since october.however, i would add his prediction of us getting better as the season goes along sure has been on point lately.we are in better shape, standings wise, than we have been since the fire sale. i guess we have to wait and see how the story ends.
predswilrule - January 27, 2012
There was nothing in the offseason. There’s going to be a lot of sellers in the next month compared to last summer. What did you want? Brad Richards for a bajillion dollars?
DonBorvio - January 27, 2012
There was nothing in the off-season?
Guys like Mike Richards, Carter, Fleischmann, Ryder and a few others changed teams this off-season, so to say there was nothing going on this summer is just not accurate.
It’s also inaccurate to say that there will be a lot of sellers in the next month. Who besides the Ducks, Oilers, Jackets, Isles, Canes and maybe the Sabres will be sellers? The 8th spot in each conference is still wide open, so there will be far more buyers than sellers.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Maybe could have offered something more for Carter. Don’t think we had enough to offer for Richards. Fleishmann is not worth it, we need a 30 goal scorer. Ryder was a steal.
Predmonton - January 27, 2012
Fleischmann may well hit 30 goals this season.
There’s good arguments that can be made for why we didn’t go for this player or that player this summer and I get that, but the point is that good players did change teams. Bergfors was not one of them, despite how he was hyped by GMDP.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
But in Poile's defense....
….I wouldn’t want a guy like Fleischmann, and we couldn’t afford a guy like Richards. There’s no sense in overpaying for guys that are UFA. There just isn’t, and we can’t affford that. We need to trade our assets for a 30-40 goal guy. Period. That’s the avenue to add a top 3 guy for us.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
That’s fine as long as there’s someone out there who wants to trade a 30-40 goal scorer to you. Not sure who that team is right now.
Hard to argue that Fleischmann is being overpaid at the moment.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
My arguement: It's momentary.
Bobby Ryan?
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
Do we really know that Ryan is even being shopped? And if what the Ducks GM has said is true, he wants established talent in return for anyone he moves, not draft picks. Who do we give up?
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Yip?
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
Ahh, the high end bargaining chip that is the Yipster. :D
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Try offering Ryan Suter for him.
Viqsi - January 28, 2012
Poile could have made offers to all of these guys, we don’t know. He could have made an offer to the best forward available and it could have been rejected by that forward and the next one, until the best forward available was Bergfors.
cisar - January 27, 2012
That’s a lot different than saying there weren’t any players available though, is it not?
Of course, it could be argued that Poile didn’t call about anyone as well and that Bergfors was just a “see, I did something” move.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
No GM says ‘we tried to get “x” but he didn’t want to play here’, do they? Which is what ‘not available’ could easily mean.
On your second point, yes it could be that as easily as my point, but you don’t ever want to argue the other side, do you? You can’t accept the possibility that the best player ‘available’ to us, might have been Bergforsberg. Heh.
cisar - January 27, 2012
Trying to obfuscate the point, are we? ;)
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Trying to avoid it, are we?
cisar - January 27, 2012
Avoiding your obfuscation I am. :p
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
You must be a big Slade fan…
Run Run Away.
cisar - January 28, 2012
Not nearly the fan you must be of Bread “If”. :)
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Now don’t get all sour. D’oh!
You know, ‘Baby, I’m-a want you’ was actually a bigger hit for them.
That’s what Poile needs to be singing to Suter.
cisar - January 28, 2012
“Guitar man” was my fav from them.
Poile needs to be singing “Baby I’m a want you” to that stud forward we need (in a non-romantic tone). :D
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Well, other teams may not be sellers per se. But what about Morrow in Dallas? Kings could be sellers too. Fact is, there’s going to be a lot more options vs last summer. Yeah, Philly blew up their team. Richards was on the market, and a couple others. A lot went for high dollar. We got Bergfors.
DonBorvio - January 28, 2012
But again, you’re throwing out teams that “may” be sellers vs. who we know did move last summer. Why would the Knigs (currently right behind us in the standings) or the Stars, who are right in the mix for the 8th seed, be sellers? The way things are shaping up right now, it looks like there will be very few sellers prior to the trade deadline, and the one’s that are selling don’t have a whole lot to offer, save the Ducks if they really do move one of their top line players.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Kings will trade. They need a change.
cisar - January 28, 2012
The already made that change……..behind the bench. If anything, they’re looking to add, not subtract. But I’ll take Dustin Brown if they don’t want him.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
A lot can change in a month, with those teams – and ours. If we struggle in February, I’m all for trading Suter – if we are keeping pace, then go for it and try to bring in some piece. There will be more sellers by the trade deadline.
DonBorvio - January 28, 2012
Sure, Poile doesn’t “have to” make moves to persuade Suter to stay, but it sure beats the alternative in losing him without putting up a fight to keep him here. But I agree about this summer being the time to have done something of significance. In a salary cap world, most moves of significance are done in July, not February.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
That's right, we can make a liar out of Suter and Weber by making a cup run this year.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
My two options:
1. Keep Suter and trade picks and prospects for a bonafide top 3 guy. Bobby Ryan, etc. If you keep Suter, then it has to be with the assumption that it’s “go time” and you have to try and win the cup. Adding a top 3 guy like Ryan would undoubtedly put us in a position to win now, and he would also make our #2 power play even better and (hopefully) assure that it doesn’t disappear in the playoffs, which would lead to our downfall.
2. If you aren’t willing to make a commitment to winning the cup this year, then you trade Suter to the highest bidder. Add a young superstar like Schenn or Coutourier (sp?) or JVR (can you say Philly?).
I’m OK with either option. But if we keep Suter, then we MUST trade for a top 3 forward and perhaps another defensive defenseman to replace Hillen/Bouillon.
With that said, I’m almost convinced that Suter doesn’t want to stay in Nashville. I love Nashville…blahblahblah, he’s just saying the right things and doing the wrong thing. To me, his words say that he wants the Preds to make a commitment to winning the cup, but I think this means that he wants us to spend to the cap. We will not do that, and he will not resign with us under any circumstances in my opinion. Sides, his relatives are probably telling him that he’s too good to be in a non-hockey market and he’ll get maximal exposure in MTL or NYR or Philly or someplace like that. I believe whole-heartedly that he will be gone this summer….no matter what.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
PfPP actually makes a good point here.
Suter knowing that the highest this franchise will go in payroll is (maybe) the cap midpoint could well be a big problem here. And with us sitting at the bottom of the league in payroll, why would he think it will change dramatically in the future? Add to that that the biggest move Poile has made in the past 5 years is for Fisher last season, and that because Lombardi wasn’t coming back from his concussion. Nothing has really been done by this organization to entice a Suter or Weber to sign long term here.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
That's why you either go with a big time acquisition....
….or you just trade him away. The time for the Preds to make a run is NOW. I will not fault Poile if he makes a big splash and goes for the cup and the we lose Suter in the summer. But I will call for his head if he makes no notable moves and then loses Suter in the summer cause we get bounced early in the playoffs. If we go deep and Suter still doesn’t sign, then he’s Benedict Arnold. I also will not fault Poile if he trades Suter at the deadline. Ryan Suter is not the be all and end all of this team. He’s a great player and I’d like to see him resign, but he just isn’t our axis.
Rinne is that.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
Right, the worst thing Poile can do now is nothing.
DonBorvio - January 28, 2012
+1
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
His words remind me of a story:
I knew a girl who was a dental hygeinist (sp?). She quit her job cause there “wasn’t enough room for advancement in her career.” I wondered, “what? does she want to be promoted to dentist or something?” Cause that makes no sense at all. You have to be a dentist to be a dentist.
Then I talked to my sister and she told me that she really meant that she wanted a raise but didn’t get it and so she quit.
Suter wants to see a commitment to winning. This means he wants us to spend to the cap. Hartnell says that they have the opportunity to win the cup cause they spend to the cap, others say it as well. To me, this is what Suter is saying without saying it. Same thing for Weber.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
Who in the world
thought it was a good idea to reward Grizzledbear by greening his comment? :P
My take is that this is exactly what we knew, the players knew, the management knew, the owners knew, the media knew, and every other GM in the league already knew. Suter just wants people to stop asking him every damn day, “what’s going on? is there progress? Huh? huh?”
CAustin - January 27, 2012
I hope getting greened is a good thing. :D
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Oh, the greening.
Greening the Cube.
Green and bear it.
Wearing O’ the green.
Mr. Green Jeans.
cisar - January 27, 2012
GREEN LANTERN!!!
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
It’s not easy bein’ green.
LuvthePreds - January 27, 2012
~~Kermit the Frog
LuvthePreds - January 27, 2012
that was me, CAustin. and I didn’t do it as a reward to him. I did it because that post was pretty reasonable and concise without being aggressive and made some points that I really agree with, specifically:
The Preds need to capitalize on what is going good with this season and run as deep (all the way!) as possible
The Preds need Ryan Suter for that. Keep him whether he’s signed or not – worry about it after the Cup run (unless the Bolts decide to offer Lecavalier and Stamkos for him)
The Preds need to add the best forward available and a solid vet d-man for a deep Cup run this year.
Also the Preds need to spend some money, GMDP said that this year we would have a higher salary, he needs to show it, especially with the increased attendance at the Bridge and the new ownership guy that bought in back in the fall.
I say all this without speculating on Suter’s motives, we need to use him while we’ve got him and let the summer bring what the summer brings.
And I agree with you CAustin, everyone needs to leave Suter alone about his contract (except GMDP and the negotiating team), so he can just play some hockey!
Only Fan In J.C. ? - January 27, 2012
That we’re currently about 2M under where we were in cap hit from last season after Poile’s/ownerships proclamations about “spending more than ever before” is yet another problematic aspect of all of this.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
For those who want to trade Suter now...
What do you think you get back for him? He is a UFA. I don’t think you get anything for him that matches his importance to the team this year in a playoff run. If he was a RFA or if he had years left on his contract you might be able to get a good return.
…and as I type this Grizzled steals my point.
The offer would have to be way to good to pass up. It would have to be an offensive superstar.
Josiah2729 - January 27, 2012
Bears are always stealing things……picnic baskets, points, whatever we can get our paws on. :D
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
But a bear is not a honey badger.
LuvthePreds - January 27, 2012
He’s a lot bigger though. :)
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Psh. Honey Badger don’t give a damn.
davisca - January 28, 2012
Weren't the Kings in the same situation with Doughty last summer?
He was UFA but want to stay with the Kings and it took almost into the beginning of the season to sign him, and he didn’t bolt elsewhere? shrug Reading Suter’s actual quotes, he wants to see what Poile can do and probably how well the team does this year. If they get to the Conf/Cup Finals – I think he’d be more amenable to signing here.
I guess nothing we can do really but wait for a move by the end of February, and then how far they get in the playoffs.
DonBorvio - January 27, 2012
Doughty was a RFA.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
More like Jay Bouwmeester
Florida waited and waited, and ended up with just scraps as they traded him days before July 1 to Calgary.
Dirk Hoag - January 27, 2012
I thought someone was UFA that waited and didn’t bolt though. Oh well. We’re not at that stage yet (Poile can trade him still before Feb 27).
DonBorvio - January 27, 2012
sully
He did it a few tears ago. Granted he was not a top guy like suter but he went and took offers july 1 and still chose to stay here. Whats to say suter wouldnt do the same?
Shadow23 - January 28, 2012 via iPhone app
If analogies from other teams count, at one point Vinny Lecavalier wasn’t signed until October and I think Marty St Louis had a similar situation, although I’m not looking it up right now. Both were UFAs at the time, iirc. It does happen. I doubt it will with Suter and Weber. It’s not really a contract issue for either of them.
CAustin - January 28, 2012
You can’t trade him because more than likely he won’t agree to sign with his new team.
Suter and Weber are both telling Poile we need playoff help as our history shows we barely average 2 goals a game. This is all on the Preds, all the gold and marketing stuff can’t hide the fact that DP has flat out failed as it currently relates to these two future HOF d’man.
virgil trucks - January 27, 2012
Disagree.
cisar - January 27, 2012
Disagree. We have no idea what has been offered.
Catwoman - January 27, 2012
Gotta disagree with you there.
davisca - January 28, 2012
I agree with him (evening things out here). :p
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
But now the hard question...
of the moves made last offseason, which one would you have liked to see Poile make?
Only use moves that were actually made (you can’t say trade for Parise, because we don’t know that he was available).
Josiah2729 - January 27, 2012
Assuming that you’re talking to me, I’ve already put out there who I think GMDP should have gone after (Fleischmann and Ryder). True, neither of them are superstars, but you do what you can with the resources you have to work with. None of the players we hear talked about as possibly being available right now have better numbers than those two, Ryan being the exception if he really is on the trade market (not really sure he is).
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Flash and Ryder are both garbage.
I commend Poile for not going after those two. I say go after a superstar….Bobby Ryan.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
Their numbers would argue otherwise.
Ryan, Stastny, Parise………all fine young players………but are they being offered? I tend to doubt it.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
One of them is who I'd take.
Ryan at least is supposedly.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
At the end of last year, I would have taken Fleischmann.
cisar - January 27, 2012
Not as a UFA.
Too much $$$
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
Not looking at money, I liked his game.
cisar - January 27, 2012
It wasn't just for you...
I don’t think most would have been happy with Fleischmann or Ryder. I don’t know that that would have been enough to “make Suter stay.”
This is not fantasy hockey, you can’t just go get anyone you want. Most of the superstars (Ovechkin, Crosby) are obtained by being HORRIBLE for several seasons. It is easy to look back and say get Fleischmann or Ryder, but I don’t remember anyone saying the Preds should try to get them in the offseason. well now Cisar said he would have. Everyone wants the big UFA signing, but that almost always doesn’t work out.
I remember a lot of people saying that Columbus would be better than the Preds this year because of their offseason moves. How is that working out?
Josiah2729 - January 27, 2012
Umm, I’m on record way back in June as wanting to take a shot at the two players I mentioned, as were a few others here.
Not sure how you can say that free agents signings almost always don’t work out. B.Richards is doing quite well in NY, the Panthers are doing well with all their new players too. It’s all a matter of finding the right fit for your team.
Sure, Columbus may have flopped, but for every C-Bus you have a Florida.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Yeah. That boat don’t float. There were a few people around here targeting those two players. And at 4.5m, Fleischmann (my guy) has turned out to be the steal of the offseason. So don’t give me that BS that every deal this offseason was terrible. There were a few guys that could have been impact players. Poile just misjudged the market.
Shawn Kehoe - January 28, 2012
IM GLAD WHAT WE ALL KNEW IS FINALLY OUT IN THE OPEN
12 months from now we will have a wash rinse repeat w/ weber.
predswilrule - January 27, 2012
Suter
Well in the end this is on management! Preds take the Canucks to six games with both Weber and Suter knowing full well if this team was a bit deeper up front maybe the result might have been different. And then they lowball Weber, don’t try to extend Suter and almost lose a handful of others. They see more vets depart so what’s he supposed to think? Both Poile and Trotz like to win 2 to 1 and that’s not going to change. At least the league has gravitated their way these days. Why is it that we can’t sign our own drafted and homegrown players? We think based on Poile’s comment the team has offered fair value but who the hell knows! Do you believe the team or Suter? Based on history I’ll side with Suter.
virgil trucks - January 27, 2012
True, but look at Rinne’s contract….he got paid well.
Predmonton - January 27, 2012
Yeah, I don’t think money is the stumbling block in getting a deal done here.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
If our power play does not suck we come out of the Vancouver series with a win, methinks.
Is our roster not filled with people we drafted? Someone has the number, I can’t look it up right now. 15?
cisar - January 27, 2012
If we want to play the game of “if”, then if Loungo doesn’t give up that awful goal to Suter, it could have been a 4 game sweep. Not really sure what any of this has to do with the current situation though.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Luongo giving up awful goals in the playoffs is not an “if.”
Josiah2729 - January 27, 2012 via Android app
But “if” he didn’t give up bad goals………;D
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Ha!
cisar - January 27, 2012
lolz
Poiju - January 27, 2012
(Sniff, sniff). ~ Luongo
LuvthePreds - January 27, 2012
Heh heh heh
davisca - January 28, 2012
Suter and Weber are asking Poile to provide more playoff scoring depth as the past six years have netted the Preds one playoff series wins. Biggest reason is they’re averaging just 2 goals a game and that’s their playoff problem in a nutshell.
virgil trucks - January 27, 2012
I think its been our special teams that have cost us series wins.
Our PP is #2 now, which will help immensely in the playoffs.
But I understand your point perfectly, and agree.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 27, 2012
I can't remember the exact numbers, but I crunched them after the Chicago win, I believe.
Over the last month, we have averaged somewhere around 3.something goals per game. We also had (I believe) 4 games in which we scored 5 goals and 4 goals in which we scored 4 goals. There’s more but I can’t remember off the top of my head. Also, we have had the #2 PP in the league for several months now.
Not saying we shouldn’t make a move or anything, I’m just saying that our numbers aren’t quite that terrible.
davisca - January 28, 2012
I think he was refering to our playoff scoring numbers.
I remember during the week or so before the 2009 trade deadline when we went on a big scoring streak and Poile stood on the sidelines and didn’t make any deals to help the team offensively, despite the team being weak offensively for most of the season. I hope he learned from that mistake, though I’m not convinced he did.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
That’s been in the back of my mind for the last few weeks…
Dirk Hoag - January 28, 2012
Oh, well yes, that is different then. We do tend to be really low-scoring the post-season… Also, now that you mention it, I do remember that scoring streak (and subsequent slump). Here, just looked up the numbers… in January 2011 (9-4-0) we had 43GF and 28GA (nice!) and lots of 4- and 5-goal wins. In February 2011 (5-6-2 (erp!)) we had 27GF and 32GA (…ew), were shut out thrice (Edmonton, Chicago, and Columbus… ew ew ew…), and had just one 4-goal win and just one 5-goal win.
Let’s hope this trend doesn’t continue…. also, that GMDP might do something exciting!
davisca - January 29, 2012
(Also just realized that you mentioned 2009, not 2011, but funnily enough (or not), the same problem still applied 2 years later!)
davisca - January 29, 2012
Actually, I’m glad you brought up the 2011 numbers. It’s a trend that should jump out at Poile. I think Poile did what he could last season, but he didn’t get it done in 2009 or 2010.
Grizzledbear - January 29, 2012 via mobile
Bear (haha) with me for another 5-10 minutes... I'm doing some historical compilations that might prove interesting!
davisca - January 29, 2012
I hope they’re not un-bear-able. :D
Grizzledbear - January 29, 2012 via mobile
I don’t think they are. It looks like we just tend to be pretty solidly just-above-average during our 2nd semester of hockey. February is a little frightening, traditionally, but April is usually all fun and games.
davisca - January 29, 2012
I was looking at the numbers you meant and got side-tracked. (Sorry this is such a TALL post!)
Since other people might find them interesting as well, I’ll post what I started writing down… the Preds’ records from January-April for the last 5 years (07-11). Why 5 years? It’s a solid number – why not? I was looking for any patterns, but I’m tired so I’ll look more closely tomorrow. Here are the numbers. Have at them!
Jan-Apr 2007
JAN: 10-3-0 (0.77)
FEB: 7-5-1 (0.53)
MAR: 6-5-3 (0.43)
APR: 2-0-1 (0.66)
Total Average: 0.597
Jan-Apr 2008
JAN: 8-3-3 (0.57)
FEB: 6-4-3 (0.46)
MAR: 7-6-1 (0.50)
APR: 2-1 (0.66)
Total Average: 0.547
Jan-Apr 2009
JAN: 4-8-0 (0.33)
FEB: 10-4-1 (0.66)
MAR: 7-3-4 (0.50)
APR: 2-3 (0.66)
Total Average: 0.55
Jan-Apr 2010
JAN: 6-7-0 (0.46)
FEB: 3-3-1 (0.43)
MAR: 11-5-1 (0.65)
APR: 3-1 (0.75)
Total Average: 0.572
Jan-Apr 2011
JAN: 9-4-0 (0.69)
FEB: 5-6-2 (0.38)
MAR: 10-3-2 (0.66)
APR: 2-1-1 (0.50)
Total Average: 0.55
Thus Far Jan 2012
JAN: 10-2-0 (0.83)
(1 game left vs. Minnesota)
Average Jan-Apr Performances by Month
JAN: 0.77 // 0.57 // .033 // 0.46 // 0.69 = Average 0.56
—> JAN with 2012 = Average 0.61
FEB: 0.53 // 0.46 // 0.66 // 0.43 // 0.38 = Average 0.49
MAR: 0.43 // 0.50 // 0.50 // 0.65 // 0.66 = Average 0.54
APR: 0.66 // 0.66 // 0.66 // 0.75 // 0.50 = Average 0.64
Average Jan-Apr Performances by Year
2007: 0.77 // 0.53 // 0.43 // 0.66 = Average 0.60
2008: 0.57 // 0.46 // 0.50 // 0.66 = Average 0.55
2009: 0.33 // 0.66 // 0.50 // 0.66 = Average 0.55
2010: 0.46 // 0.43 // 0.65 // 0.75 = Average 0.57
2011: 0.69 // 0.38 // 0.66 // 0.50 = Average 0.55
—
So we aren’t great in February, traditionally, but we’re solid in April. Cool. That’s as much detail as I can deal with tonight.
davisca - January 29, 2012
Aw hell, while I'm at it... the respective PLAYOFFS!!
2007 (Sharks): 1-4 Loss
GF: 14
GA: 16
2008 (Wings): 2-4 Loss
GF: 12
GA: 17
2009 (No one): 0-0
2010 (Hawks): 2-4 Loss
GF: 15
GA: 17
2011 (Ducks): 4-2 Win
GF: 22
GA: 20
2011 (Nucks): 2-4 Loss
GF: 11
GA: 14
davisca - January 29, 2012
That 11 GF number against the Canucks is what should have moved Poile to do something this off-season to address that problem. That as much as anything is why I have no confidence that Poile will do anything now either.
Grizzledbear - January 29, 2012 via mobile
Not really any huge variations in the averages it would appear.
Grizzledbear - January 29, 2012 via mobile
Which, in a sense, is comforting.
davisca - January 29, 2012
It is an ‘IF’ that was floated by many a top sportswriter after that series. Didn’t necessarily need to be deeper up front, maybe just healthier. What about those draft picks?
cisar - January 27, 2012
What about those draft picks? A team at the bottom of the cap floor is likely to have most of it’s roster put together by draft picks. So what’s your point here?
“If” isn’t why we lost to the Canucks, they were just better than us.
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
There PK was better than our PP.
They outplayed us.
Draft picks is for virgiltrucks. Draft picks have us where we are now.
cisar - January 28, 2012
And if those draft picks. (Suter and Weber) talk a walk, where does this get us?
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
We get more draft picks every year?
If Weber wants to go somewhere else after this year, it’s draft picks galore.
cisar - January 28, 2012
I’m sure the casual fan will be thrilled with this scenario. :/
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
I’m sure Columbus would love all those draft picks for Rick Nash.
cisar - January 28, 2012
Tend to doubt that.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Poile cant win
I see no way DP can win. I see nobody on a team that’s out of contention that is worth going after, except Matt Moulson or Bobby Ryan, and its highly unlikely the NYI will give up Moulson and do we really want Ryan for 3 years at 5.1M. So Poile has to trade Suter. for to get a decent return. If he can land somebody for the short term, It will probably cost us more than its worth. So there is no winning this mess.
DHack - January 27, 2012
Lord, yes. What a sweet deal.
Sam Page - January 27, 2012
I’m with ’ya there!
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Aye.
Me and Sam and Grizzly agree.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
I would also take that.
cisar - January 28, 2012
Then the resolution has passed.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
YES!
davisca - January 28, 2012
HELL YES
can we have him for more years at that price
predswilrule - January 27, 2012
hell yes
Thats lower the pekkas hit id do that in a heartbeat
Shadow23 - January 28, 2012 via iPhone app
Yes. Yes we do. Very much we do.
Shawn Kehoe - January 28, 2012
lol
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
Again...
Everyone is both right and wrong. DP messed up already last summer and now Suter is waiting to cash in. Not much we as Preds fans can do. Hes going to get + $6.5 million from someone. Why not?! However, Its tough for all of us to sit here and watch it unfold as we are doing so well. I just hope we can keep both Suter and Weber bc it really would be the end of a good run; meaning it will take years to get back to being really competitive combined with the incredible fan support that will all but die quickly.
Weber will follow Suter and then the fans will follow Weber right out the door. Its tough. A lot of people here say we dont know what was offered etc. give me a break. We all “know” whats going on. We are not naive. Its also political too. We have 30 days to see what the real deal is. Then its Dominos time. Until then. heres to hoping.
Go Preds. Been here since day 1 btw too.
ajs3677 - January 27, 2012
But, everyone is right and wrong? I disagree that it is dominoes time. It might be Pizza Perfect time!
cisar - January 27, 2012
Ha
heres to pizza on the lighter side of things. Playing devils advocate, I do hate when players hold the teams/GMs hostage a bit like this. I see the business side of things for the player and the team so its a tough situation for all.
ajs3677 - January 27, 2012
I think what he meant to say is I’m right and you’re wrong. :p
Grizzledbear - January 27, 2012 via mobile
HA
ajs3677 - January 27, 2012
I think I am going to focus on the here and now.
We are winning. We have great looking young talent and we have the best top D pair in the league. If we all keep stressing over what is going to happen in July then we are going to miss out on enjoying what has turned into a great season.
bandman - January 27, 2012
I like your perspective.
Moar of this :)
davisca - January 28, 2012
If weber or suter want to be on a new team
Then they want that team to give up 0 assets to get them. Makes their new team better.
IG-PRED8 - January 27, 2012
a new cba ...
Has more to do with the no signing than anyone thinks. What if the cap goes down? That hurts the GM and team. What if the cap goes up? The player could have gotten more. What if they limit the number of years on a contract or rewrite how a salary cap hit is construed or the contract can only go down X percentage? Too many what ifs in the new CBA.
djzielin - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Suter being rational; Poile?
Ryan Suter has earned his free agency. He will likely be the most sought after D UFA this summer. He has waited this long to sign – wait a few more months and the leverage and $‘s can be maximized (along with being able to choose where he will live for the next several years). Hockey players rarely have this leverage. To Suter its worth the wait. He can still sign with Nashville if he wants. The only risk to not signing now is serious injury. At this point, its probably worth that risk to wait. Bottom line, Suter will get paid and will be able to select his team. His actions are extremely rational and I don’t hold his not signing now against him.
What I do not understand is David Poile’s reported letter to GMs stating that Suter is off the market one month before the deadline. Assuming Suter is not willing to sign pre-July 1, Poile must leave all options open. Though unlikely, another team might be tempted to make a crazy offer which could set up Nashville for future success.
My guess is that Poile didn’t want a potential trade of Suter to distract the team post allstar break. He also is saying by taking this option that if Suter were not on the Preds, he would welcome Suter as a rental. By not considering trading Ryan Suter, David Poile is saying he believes this team is capable of making a run to at least the Conference Finals. He is willing to risk the future for now because Championship flags fly forever.
jmack4 - January 27, 2012 via mobile
I believe it's about money and only money,
but we won’t know for certain until Suter signs a contract. Based on everything suter has said, If Nashville offers him fair market value he will stay here. Suter and his agent can’t pick the stanley cup winner any better than the bettors in las vegas and the sports books there make a lot of money every year on people trying to pick the winner before the season starts. However, if money is not the only factor, he should sign with Detroit as they are the one team that truly contends for the cup year in and year out. Philly hasn’t won a cup since ’75, the bruins win last year was there first since ’72. Detroit has won two cups of the last ten and are the only multiple cup winner in those ten years.
buzzed - January 28, 2012
It should be noted that the Flyers have been to 6 Cup finals since they last won the Cup, the Bruins were to at least 3 Cup finals between ’72 and 2011. One not need Vegas to figure out which teams are always in the hunt for the Cup.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Just for the sake of argument, Before the bruins win last year, they had not made a cup final since 1990. So they’ve made on finals appearance since the predators entered the nhl. Same for philly-one cup final in 2010. And scott hartnell is pretty happy to be there because they “spend to the cap every year”. That’s not a hell of a lot of bang for all the money spent.
buzzed - January 28, 2012
Why discount all the conference finals those teams have been to? Considering we haven’t gotten out of the 2nd round yet, it’s a bit hard to try and sell Nashville as being a better place to win a Cup at then in Boston or Philly.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
I’m not discounting their past success, just looking at their success since nashville joined the nhl, ’98’99 season was the first year for us.
buzzed - January 28, 2012
Boston was pretty terrible until the past couple years, but Philly has consistently made long playoff runs the entire time the Preds have existed. They’ve only missed the playoffs once since then and have made the Eastern Conference finals 4 times.
Stormyt - January 28, 2012
83% (or so) of Detroit’s team is also going to be retiring in the next few years. Wah-wah.
davisca - January 28, 2012
And guess who they will be eyeing up to replace those retired players? (Yes, rhetorical question).
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Cylons?
cisar - January 29, 2012
Bears?
davisca - January 29, 2012
Crossroads
I can’t help but feel this is the biggest Crossroads that this organization has ever faced. I won’t recap all the possible outcomes, as I feel they have been covered well enough both here and in the media at large. For this reason, I don’t envy David Poile.
As a simple-minded STH, the two following things come to mind:
1. If it weren’t for the fire-sale in 2007 (keeping in mind Suter’s and Weber’s tenure at that point), would we even be having this discussion? I hope that ownership is reminding Suter and Weber of this.
2. If the Predators lose Suter and/or Weber, and considering past trades, do the Predators cement themselves to a reputation as “the place you go to learn to play hockey, then go get a ‘real’ contract”? Kinda like the Predators being the AHL-Plus league — a farm team for other NHL teams.
Signing Rinne was a huge step to avoid the issue in #2 above. I just wish I knew what it would take to sign both Suter and Weber without giving away the future… (but, again, that’s the subject of many other discussions).
Leeyore - January 28, 2012
Apparently they do want Poile to “prove it.” I guess we will see how it all plays out. I still think you have a better chance of making a run keeping them than trading them for picks/prospects.
Apparently it is about going out and getting someone.
Josiah2729 - January 28, 2012
It’s what I’ve been trying to tell ’ya! :)
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
They are those guys now…
Everyone remembers what happened that year, it was very drastic, Leopold was trying to shed salary in order to sell the team. Unfortunately if the Preds lose Weber AND Suter they will be in a similar situation.
Josiah2729 - January 28, 2012
That’s exactly what I was thinking – Suter and Weber are “those guys.” How can Poile and owners prove they want to hang onto UFAs/RFAs when you guys are the UFAs/RFAs? They’re asking Poile.owners to do something that isn’t possible.
Griz-ATL - January 28, 2012
Not saying we should have kept these guys, but Goc, Ward and O’Brien all went out the door this past summer. That, along with not signing/trading for anyone of consequence hasn’t helped shape their perception of the situation I would think.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
This is what you’ve been trying to tell us?
Ward-not worth the money he is making, he was getting slower. Good guy, glad he got paid.
Goc – replaceable. Don’t even miss him. (Sorry, JR)
O’Brien – Would love to have him back.
cisar - January 28, 2012
Dmitry Chesnokov of Puck Daddy thinks Radulov will come back. If we sign someone decent (Carter, Roy, etc) now, and get Radulov back – we’ll be pretty set.
DonBorvio - January 28, 2012
So yet again, you evade my actual point and substitue it with one of your own imagination. Do not Ryder and Fleischmann fit the description of the kind of player Suter is talking about here? Me thinks you’re just being a pest now.
It’s the fact of watching all their UFA teammates leave for more money that builds into a perception of a Suter or Weber that this will be a continual practice of the organization, not that those players were worth the money they got from other teams.
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Fleischmann. That’s who I wanted last summer.
The other guys, they weren’t worth the money (Obie excepted). We pay all of those guys big, we don’t have the money for Peks, Weber, Suter, et al.
At the end of the day, the whole Preds team, including Weber and Suter, is pretty happy with what this team is doing right now.
I am also happy.
cisar - January 28, 2012
By the quotes from Suter and Weber, it would seem you’re overstating their level of happiness.
But I’m glad you’re happy. :)
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
If only you could see them after a win… all smiles, hand in hand, giving each other gifts…. WAIT A MINUTE!
cisar - January 28, 2012
Whoa dude.
Don’t go putting 30 point muckers like Ward and Goc into the same category as Timmonen, Hartnell, Kariya and Isnott. Those dudes have not been missed one bit, and we are better this year than we ever have been….at least since 06-07.
Sure I want SOB back, but he’s hardly one of “those guys” either.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - January 28, 2012
Perception my friend, it's all about perception........
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Blackhawks got Morrison from Calgary.
4g 7A in 28 games. Spent time on IR, was injured in a game against the Hawks.
Josiah2729 - January 28, 2012
Hawks definately needed to add some depth up front. Not sure how much this helps them, but the trading has begun!
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
I thought it was ironic that he got traded to the team that injured him.
May make for an interesting practice?
Josiah2729 - January 28, 2012
hey, that sexism story from the links is absolutely ridiculously stupid. Oh, and I hope we keep Ryan Suter here in Nashville forever.
BradPerala - January 28, 2012
No kidding. I’m sorry, do other sports NOT have brainless bimbos who wander around doing menial tasks during big TV-events for their respective sport?? And I’m not even going to get into the chick who was reading the Twitter stuff… all I’m going to say is DEAR GOD. I could have done better.
davisca - January 28, 2012
I miss that blonde reporter from Versus who did the bench/between periods interviews. I bet the players do too! :D
Grizzledbear - January 28, 2012 via mobile
Oh yeah… I never really paid attention to her.
davisca - January 29, 2012
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